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Comments by YACCS
Monday, April 03, 2006

Josh Marshall's dilemma





It seems New New Yorker Josh Marshall has to pick a baseball team. Anyone who reads this site knows my disdain for the Yankees knows no bounds. The association with immorality, crime and drug abuse among them. Fuck the fuckin Yankees

Here's Josh Marshall

How could I ever root for the New York Yankees?

As I get older and start to put down roots in New York I realize that I want to get back into baseball. And that means picking a team. Now, 'picking' a team sounds a bit awkward and even antithetical to concept of fandom. It's like picking a family. Either you're born into it. Or thrust into it by fate and circumstance. But devoting yourself to a team is too mystical and irrational to just 'pick.'

Still, I sorta need to pick.

When I was a kid, really until I went to college, I was a huge baseball fan. A football fan too. But really a baseball fan. I was born in St. Louis, which means I started out as a Cardinals fan. Then we moved to Los Angeles where my Dad slowly evolved into a Dodgers fan. So I was a Dodgers fan too, but always as much an Angels fan, even though my Dad, I think, found the Angels somehow a bit light and airy, perhaps just unserious, certainly not an institution worthy of real devotion.

(For those who don't follow baseball, the California Angels were an early baseball expansion team. They only go back to the early 60s.)

Perhaps because of this lack of full and unconflicted attachment to either team, for many years, as a kid I became seriously devoted to the Pittsburgh Pirates, even though I've never had any connection whatsoever to the city. And I'm not sure I've even been to Pittsburgh save for a train stop or plane layover.

Then, at 18, I left for the east coast. I lived in New Jersey for five years. Then Rhode Island for five years. Then Boston for almost three more years. Then DC five and a half more. And now New York for about a year and a half. Somehow with all the moving and distraction of trying to figure out what to do with my life and how to make something of myself, I just lost the addiction. I dabbled with the Phillies. A bit with the Red Sox. But, somehow, it was just never long enough for it to take.

Watching a movie last night about the Boston Red Sox, I was a little surprised to consider and remember that in almost a decade living in New England I never once made it to a game at Fenway Park. But that's the past. Now I'm here. So what to do? New York is a great baseball city. No longer four teams, sure. But two.

But the Yankees? Becoming a Yankees fan seems almost like apostasy. Dodger fans grow up hating the Yankees. Cardinal fans to a lesser degree. But still a lot of the same. And in any case, they win too much. What makes humans objects of love or devotion or care is almost always their imperfections, the weaknesses and flaws. They are what makes us human rather than mere statues. Admiration and awe for perfection, sure. But the Yanks seem all about breaking other teams' dreams.

Having your team win all the time is great. Believe me, I love it. But picking a team that wins all the time is just too easy. Even a bit cheap.

Now, my wife, who immigrated to this country as a small child, grew up on Long Island. So to the extent she has a team, it's the Mets. And this is her recommendation to me. But they seem rather like the Angels, too new, somehow manufactured, really neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. (The Mets are another expansion team.)

So I throw it out to you. Yanks fans, what do you suggest? Mets fan? Maybe even those of you who've moved here and there and fallen permanently out of love. Give me your thoughts.



-- Josh Marshall



But it seems that they're kicking this around on Kos.

First, a reason to root for the Yankees, then common sense, my comments to follow

Why The Yanks? Here's Ten Reasons Why

Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 07:11:47 PM PDT

Josh Marshall asks why should he become a Yankees fan?

How could I ever root for the New York Yankees?

As I get older and start to put down roots in New York I realize that I want to get back into baseball. And that means picking a team. Now, 'picking' a team sounds a bit awkward and even antithetical to concept of fandom. It's like picking a family. Either you're born into it. Or thrust into it by fate and circumstance. But devoting yourself to a team is too mystical and irrational to just 'pick.'

Still, I sorta need to pick.

Ten reasons to root for the Yankees:

(1) Yankee Stadium. Great ballpark. Easy to get to from the City. Great atmosphere. Knowledgeable fans. Diverse crowd.

(2) The Bronx. Blue as blue can get. Diversity.

(3) Red Sox fans. Most annoying in the sense of turning a great hard nosed blue collar sport into "a pastoral feast" about "angles." I hate Red Sox fans.

(4) Mets fans. White Republicans. ('cept for Gilliard, the exception that proves the rule.)

(5) George Steinbrenner. I'm serious. It takes a REAL fan to root for a team owned by that creep. Prove your mettle.

(6) Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams and Yankee Class. It's back baby. The pinstripes mean something again.

(7) Player development. For all the BS stated about the Yankees buying pennants, the fact is the Yankees core players have come up through the system. Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettite and Big Mo all developed by the Yankees. Don't believe the hype.

(8) Jane Knowles is a Yankee fan.

(9) You can always get into a bar fight.

(10) It's the cool thing to do.

I am SO tempted to demolish this vile propeganda, but there is a reply

Top Ten Reasons to Be a Mets Fan

Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 07:42:03 PM PDT

Because it had to happen:

1. You're a Democrat. Winning just feels downright alien. The Mets will make you feel right at home.

2. Gotham's true heirs of the Brooklyn Dodgers, aka Dem Bums, aka the Boys of Summer, aka "Wait till next year!"

3. Homer Simpson fantasized about Flushing Meadows. Did he dream about the South Bronx? Not so much.

4. Ample parking. 'Nuff said.

5. Do you really want to rub elbows with Republican hedge fund managers from Scarsdale?

6. Seven train immortalized by John Rocker.

7. No bleacher creatures = no pre-game vaccinations for rare infectious diseases.

8. Rooting for the Yankees to win the World Series is like rooting for Bill Gates to win the lottery.

9. A sop to fence-sitters: You can satisfy your Yankee cravings via manager Willie Randolph.

10. In your heart of hearts, you know the Mets will lose. That way, if they ever do win, you can be pleasantly surprised.

C'mon, Josh, do the right thing! Let's go Mets!

Oh fuck this bullshit, sure it's cute, but that's all it is.

To Josh:

The Mets are NOT like the fucking Angels, They are the heirs of the Giants and the Dodgers, especially the Dodgers. As a third -generation New Yorker, I can assure you that people went from the Dodgers to the Mets without a pause, and the Mets have a much better championship record than they did.

No team in America was loved more than the Dodgers, and much of that love has transfered to the Mets.

Every half-wit front running asshole wears Yankee gear, and they have no idea who is actually on the team.

My best friend is a lifelong, diehard, season ticket holding Yankees fan. Not his worst flaw, since he roots for the Cowboys and Arsenal as well, but he roots for the Yankees. Unfortunately, most Yankee fans are not like him, they only show up when they win.

When you see someone, oh, like me, wearing Mets gear, you don't have to guess if they're a real fan, because they are. No one just wears Mets gear. You don't just pick it up on the street like a dirty water hot dog.

Now, I have to be honest, being a Mets fan is hard. They not only lose, they win ugly, real ugly. Game six, world series. No Yankee fan has the heart for games like that. The Mets win ugly, and that is the essence of their charm.

Hey, don't make up your mind, we can go to a Mets game and a Yankees game and see which is more fun. Shea is a dump, but when things are rocking, you'll think you're at Anfield or Camp Nou. Mets fans are at their best in a close game with everything on the line.

The Yankee fans just expect to win and wonder why you don't think their team is the greatest thing since viagra. And they don't like losing. They whine like children when their sainted fucking team loses.

Oh yeah, George Steinbrenner is an asshole. And a Republican donor who went to jail for that. Pure scum from top to bottom.

Like steroids? Well, Giambi and Sheffield are your men. And holy Joe Torre won't say a fucking word about his juice boy snitches.

Now, let's get to Armando:

Ten reasons to root for the Yankees:

(1) Yankee Stadium. Great ballpark. Easy to get to from the City. Great atmosphere. Knowledgeable fans. Diverse crowd.

Bullshit. The Dominicans and PR's sit in the bleachers, the whites in the other seats. Unless he's been to another Yankee stadium. Great atmosphere? Sure, if watching cops get drunk is your idea of fun.

(2) The Bronx. Blue as blue can get. Diversity.

Oh yeah, try to have a beer after the game, Fenway it is not.

(3) Red Sox fans. Most annoying in the sense of turning a great hard nosed blue collar sport into "a pastoral feast" about "angles." I hate Red Sox fans.

Why? Because they actually know something about the sport and don't quit on their team when they lose. It takes character to be a Sox fans. Unlike the Yankees pretending they weren't humiliated in 2004. Beat like red headed school children.

(4) Mets fans. White Republicans. ('cept for Gilliard, the exception that proves the rule.)

Are you fucking kidding me? Maybe I should tell my Puerto Rican neighbors that they're really white Republicans and they can collect their portfolios at Merrill Lynch. I can't say when or even IF Armando goes to Yankee games, but the New Jersey/ Connecticut factor is high in the seats. Just because every criminal in New York wears a Yankee cap doesn't mean the Mets fans are all white Republicans like Chris Rock, Jon Stewart, Jerry Seinfeld and Viggo Mortenson. All Republicans, right? As opposed to Yankee bitch Rudy Giuliani.

Are you really eager to be a fan of the team Giuliani loves?

(5) George Steinbrenner. I'm serious. It takes a REAL fan to root for a team owned by that creep. Prove your mettle.

No, it take real mettle to root for a team down in the 9th inning with two out in the 6th Game of the world series. Why root for Satan to win?

(6) Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams and Yankee Class. It's back baby. The pinstripes mean something again.

What about Randy "bad dad" Johnson, and the juice boys, Giambi and Sheffield. Here's a secret, the Yankees really like bums. They tend to trade class: Roger Maris. The worst you act, the more the Yankee fans will lie about your character.

(7) Player development. For all the BS stated about the Yankees buying pennants, the fact is the Yankees core players have come up through the system. Jeter, Williams, Posada, Pettite and Big Mo all developed by the Yankees. Don't believe the hype.

Yeah, and they're all aging. Who won the world series the last two year, the Red Sox and White Sox? Thought so.

(8) Jane Knowles is a Yankee fan.

She also lives in Brooklyn. Should we all move there?

(9) You can always get into a bar fight.

Why? You're not in Philadephila?

(10) It's the cool thing to do.

Sure, if being a front running whiner is cool. Root for the Yankees, root for the AntiChrist, become a Republican. Yep, all those are cool as well, go Antichrists, er Yankees.

Here are MY 10 reasons for being a Mets fan

10) Easier to get tickets

9) People talk to you in the streets and ask you the scores. Because in a town which kisses the Yankees ass, being a Mets fan is like being part of a club

8) You know Shea is a dump and kick back and relax anyway

7) When the Yankees lose, you already have had something good happen in your day

6) Delusional people like Armando won't admit it, but being a Mets fan is just more fun. Being a diehard Yankee fan makes you look like a dick, with your Babe Ruth and Mickey "Boozehound" Mantle t-shirts

5) They don't bury Mets players in a graveyard in center field.

4) Nelson Doubleday isn't an asshole

3) You join the vast majority of Americans in rejoicing at Yankee failure. The only people who like the Yankees ARE Yankee fans.

2) Chris Rock and Jon Stewart are Mets fans. Enough said

1) Because the Mets represent the real New York of neighborhoods and boroughs, not the phony New York of the Yankees, with their front running, asshole fans, shouting about how great their team is, and how many championships they bought, and how they don't care about their dope shooting player.

The Mets are an underdog team which represents the real sprit and heart of New York. After 9/11, the Mets wore NYPD, NYFD and PAPD caps as part of their uniforms until the end of the season. The Yankees did it for a day.

posted by Steve @ 10:45:00 AM

10:45:00 AM

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