Will you please shut the fuck up
What? It's the burning light
I'm Not Sick of Atrios or Digby: Building a Team Means Religious and Secular Liberals Hearing Each Other Out
I love Atrios, but he's not exactly politically savvy when it comes to the concerns of religious moderates and liberals--the fastest growing part of the Democratic Party base. One would think that just as a matter of real politic that the fastest growing part of your coalition would be entitled to some basic respect if not props. But, alas, not from Atrios.This is such bullshit.
He dissed Belief Net's Steve Waldman ("I'm so sick of this") for making the narrow point that: "...many liberals carry an elitist attitude toward evangelical Christians. Lerner's indictment is far more sweeping. Is he being unfair? I think a distinction should be made between the elites and the rank and file on this. The fact is that most Democrats are religious. But secular liberals, who made up about 16% of the Kerry vote (more stats here) seem to have a disproportionate impact on the party's image and approach.
Here's the thing, Atrios: you may be "sick of" such talk, but the next election might well hinge on whether people adopt your dismissive tone or speak in a language that is at a minimum non-confrontational and preferably familiar to evangelical Christians. The sad truth is that some people won't listen to you at all if you don't frame issues in such a manner. Further, in the last month alone there have been three key stories about conservatives and moderates breaking from the grip of Christian right extremists. (Evangelical Climate Initiative; House Catholic Democrat statement that there is more to Christianity than abortion; distancing from Pat Robertson's comments.) Is this a process secular liberals want to encourage or not? Is this an opening back into some red states or not? Gov. Kaine's victory in Virginia demonstrated the political potency of showing respect for religious values in these areas.
Why the fuck don't these people wake up, or at least listen to black people about this.
They are NEVER going to break the grip of the religious right on their voters because religion is the shield for race hatred. When these people talk about "faith" one should see it as the obviously political ploy that they do when Louis Farrakhan does the same. People may listen to his words, but they know his agenda from when he walks on the stage and it's not one calling for integration.
Minorities, who make up the bulk of the religious base of the Dems, have a very, very different view on religion and politics. Because their clergy had to step in to protect them from the state. When you deal with the right, they want the state to impose a set of beliefs and rules, mostly designed to promote an anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority agenda.
When you think it's "elites" sneering at the faithful, you're a full bore fucking idiot. Because not only have you bought into a GOP frame, you're playing into the victimization the fundies push on their followers.
Only a cretin would think that Democratic Catholics saying that there is more to Christianity than abortion was progress. Hello, the church is divided on this issue. Ever hear of an ex-protestant? No? Well, I know a lot of ex-Catholics, and this is one of the reasons. I may not go to church more than once every few years, but I don't feel alienated from the United Methodist Church. I don't think Jen feels all that alienated from the Lutheran Church, even though she mostly attends Jewish services. We may not agree with everything in the church, but they haven't driven us away.
So many Catholics cannot say that.
And former Repugblican presidential candidate Robertson? He's a rich, rich Yale Law grad who started out as a segregationist. He still has access to the White House and millions of viewers. His daddy was a US Senator. This man has not lost a iota of power, no matter how crazy the shit is which came out of his mouth.
This kind of dumb as a post commentary misses the point. These people do not want a truce or an accomdation. The motives behind evangelical embraces of envrionmentalism are suspect at best, and hardly some kind of move away from the theocracy many would be comfortable with.
You want to know what progress would be? Stop saying the Grand Canyon is 6000 years old and men walked with the dinosaurs. That would be progress.
Now this is the goddamnest stupidest thing I have heard in some time. The last thing we need to do is pander to these people, and here's why: this isn't about religion. These people vote GOP because of race. Not religion. Race.
Here's the thing, Atrios: you may be "sick of" such talk, but the next election might well hinge on whether people adopt your dismissive tone or speak in a language that is at a minimum non-confrontational and preferably familiar to evangelical Christians.
Let that sink in.
Look at the roots of modern fundamentalism. It comes from the segregationist movement of the 1960's. Bob Jones, Jerry Falwell, former Republican Presidential candidate Pat Robertson. They were all segregationists.
If you think white fundies are going to vote Democratic any time soon, you need to wake the fuck up. They didn't vote Democratic before and they won't now and it's not about religion.
What people need to understand is that black Democrats have long embraced and worked with religious people, and without the patronizing tone in this article. But that is because our interests coincided.
So. are you suggesting that Dems embrace race hatred as an underlying guide to politics? No? Well, then, many of the fundies will not be interested in what you have to say? Planning to abandon gays and abortion rights? No? Then where is this "conversation" going?
Nowhere fast. Because to deal with them, you will have to abandon a principle and even then, they will not vote for you because the reason they didn't vote for you has nothing to do with Jesus, even if they say it does.
posted by Steve @ 10:43:00 AM